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Mastricht's avatar

I'm just here for the talk about 15th century conciliarism. (Okay, not quite true)

Haec Sancta or the opening councils were confirmed by several different popes. You mentioned the one Martin V quote, though people make a fuss over the word "concilialiter." He also has the bull inter cunctas, where he requires the hussites etc. to adhere to the council of constance, without specifying that he only means part of it. Basel definitely affirmed it, repeating it like four times. Arguably, Eugenius IV affirmed it in the bull Dudum Sacrum, but as he only says that his previously attempted dissolution was vain and of no effect, and that, "ipsum sacrum Generale Concilium Basileense pure, simpliciter et cum effectu ac omni devotione et favore prosequimur et prosequi intendimus", from half way through the council, some take that as less than a full approbation of what had happened to that point. But Ferrara (which then moved to Florence) treats itself as a continuation of Basel, as well. Eugenius' bull Moyses Vir treats Haec Sancta as a legit decree of the council (saying that Basel is just misinterpreting it). Pius II in his third retractation also affirms the council, explicitly in respect to what it says about the authority of councils, which can only be found in the 4th and 5th sessions. Both of these last ones would lend credence to the position that Haec Sancta is legit, but constrained in its application.

Anyway, there definitely seem to have been other councils convoked without papal approval. Vigilius actually forbade what became the 5th ecumenical council from meeting; that's awfully hard to construe as a convocation. He only eventually after accepted it, after they struck him from the diptychs and being imprisoned. I also think, but I would have to check, that Constantinople 1, like the one that we get the Nicene Creed from, was not originally accepted by Rome. It was presided over, at first, by Meletius, whom Rome was not in communion with at the time, and I think it only accepted it after 15 or 20 years had passed.

Anyway, uh, the rest of your article's interesting too.

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Chuck C's avatar

Bringing in a comment I made elsewhere about this:

Forget PoliSci folks, what governments around the world need in charge are CompSci guys, for at least a term's worth or two. Not to pass any new legislation, but to refactor and codify everything that's already there, and to install meaningful version control for the Code of Law

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